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	<title>Comments on: Feedback for Call to Arms: Entry 14 &#8211; Peace</title>
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	<link>http://blog.rbkdesign.com/2008/07/feedback-for-call-to-arms-entry-14-peace/</link>
	<description>Thoughts and perceptions of game designer, Reid Bryant Kimball</description>
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		<title>By: Dodo Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Call to Arms 08 - Peace</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbkdesign.com/2008/07/feedback-for-call-to-arms-entry-14-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodo Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Call to Arms 08 - Peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbkdesign.com/?p=21#comment-15</guid>
		<description>[...] [edit: further discussion here and here] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [edit: further discussion here and here] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan Moleman</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbkdesign.com/2008/07/feedback-for-call-to-arms-entry-14-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan Moleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbkdesign.com/?p=21#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I considered Mass Effect but didn&#039;t mention it because it&#039;s 3rd person, though by that token I suppose KotOR is a bad example too.

I think first person dialogue still has to be chosen wisely, because even though you are *not* the roles you play it is still jarring if the words spoken do not mesh with your interpretation of the role. Valve seems to have made some progress with context-sensetive barks on NPCs though that perhaps could be applied even to a player character. If the game can read the situation sufficiently the risk of a wrong line may be low enough.

It probably would be a good idea to not have each choice in the game have all manner of branching consequences as that could easily spiral out of control. Either way I do think that for the sake of pacing it might be nice have some contrast between sequences in the amount of choice you are offered (explicitely or otherwise). A heavy dilemma might be followed by a scene where it&#039;s very clear what you have to do and as a player you&#039;re basically just doing what must be done by that particular character.

I think you could have scenes that are not at the place or time of the bombing as long as you connect them with the same characters. Perhaps as the Palestinian boy throwing rocks at a bulldozer there&#039;s a moment where you see the little girl from the first scene look at you from behind a fence, until her mother pulls her along, on their way to the cafe...

Perhaps the boy is the little brother of the suicide bomber.

It would be Magnolia-esque in that threads that may not initially appear to be connected, are... The extent to which you can do this would depend on length, but I maintain that anything over 60 minutes would dilute the impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I considered Mass Effect but didn&#8217;t mention it because it&#8217;s 3rd person, though by that token I suppose KotOR is a bad example too.</p>
<p>I think first person dialogue still has to be chosen wisely, because even though you are *not* the roles you play it is still jarring if the words spoken do not mesh with your interpretation of the role. Valve seems to have made some progress with context-sensetive barks on NPCs though that perhaps could be applied even to a player character. If the game can read the situation sufficiently the risk of a wrong line may be low enough.</p>
<p>It probably would be a good idea to not have each choice in the game have all manner of branching consequences as that could easily spiral out of control. Either way I do think that for the sake of pacing it might be nice have some contrast between sequences in the amount of choice you are offered (explicitely or otherwise). A heavy dilemma might be followed by a scene where it&#8217;s very clear what you have to do and as a player you&#8217;re basically just doing what must be done by that particular character.</p>
<p>I think you could have scenes that are not at the place or time of the bombing as long as you connect them with the same characters. Perhaps as the Palestinian boy throwing rocks at a bulldozer there&#8217;s a moment where you see the little girl from the first scene look at you from behind a fence, until her mother pulls her along, on their way to the cafe&#8230;</p>
<p>Perhaps the boy is the little brother of the suicide bomber.</p>
<p>It would be Magnolia-esque in that threads that may not initially appear to be connected, are&#8230; The extent to which you can do this would depend on length, but I maintain that anything over 60 minutes would dilute the impact.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid Bryant Kimball</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbkdesign.com/2008/07/feedback-for-call-to-arms-entry-14-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid Bryant Kimball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbkdesign.com/?p=21#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Your suggestion of &quot;choice of words plus voice-over&quot; sounds like Mass Effect, but anytime you are in dialog, it changes to cinematic third person view. Could still work in First Person if that&#039;s the view you want.

Everyone treats character roles differently, if I&#039;m playing a game about suicide bombing, I don&#039;t believe that *I* will be in that situation, so I willfully allow someone else to create a character role for me to play. Therefore, hearing a voice given to my character isn&#039;t as jarring. It all comes down to player expectations. I see games as Improv theater more than anything else. There are certain rules and expectations the player and designers are supposed to follow or else the suspension of disbelief breaks.

In line with your final thought that people are caught up in events beyond their control, why not give players the illusion of agency. They can choose to rebel against other peoples wishes and hope their rebellion makes things turn out differently, but they don&#039;t. 

Regarding the paramedic, that can work I think but it will really shine if it is closely tied to your theme, to your message of what you want to say. Somehow, choosing which injured body to take shouldn&#039;t be an easy decision. Maybe there are rules, a priority of who goes to the hospital first? 1. Children, 2. Women, 3. Elderly, 4. everyone else and it seems like the women and children are far away from the pick up zone, so do you risk your life to follow protocol? Especially when your partner doesn&#039;t want to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your suggestion of &#8220;choice of words plus voice-over&#8221; sounds like Mass Effect, but anytime you are in dialog, it changes to cinematic third person view. Could still work in First Person if that&#8217;s the view you want.</p>
<p>Everyone treats character roles differently, if I&#8217;m playing a game about suicide bombing, I don&#8217;t believe that *I* will be in that situation, so I willfully allow someone else to create a character role for me to play. Therefore, hearing a voice given to my character isn&#8217;t as jarring. It all comes down to player expectations. I see games as Improv theater more than anything else. There are certain rules and expectations the player and designers are supposed to follow or else the suspension of disbelief breaks.</p>
<p>In line with your final thought that people are caught up in events beyond their control, why not give players the illusion of agency. They can choose to rebel against other peoples wishes and hope their rebellion makes things turn out differently, but they don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Regarding the paramedic, that can work I think but it will really shine if it is closely tied to your theme, to your message of what you want to say. Somehow, choosing which injured body to take shouldn&#8217;t be an easy decision. Maybe there are rules, a priority of who goes to the hospital first? 1. Children, 2. Women, 3. Elderly, 4. everyone else and it seems like the women and children are far away from the pick up zone, so do you risk your life to follow protocol? Especially when your partner doesn&#8217;t want to?</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan Moleman</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbkdesign.com/2008/07/feedback-for-call-to-arms-entry-14-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan Moleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbkdesign.com/?p=21#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I shall have to watch that film, Rendition.

I like reincorporation as a storytelling device. It can be really powerful in showing connections that you weren&#039;t aware of or changing your perception of a thing.

I think you&#039;re right that it would be good to focus every vignette on the one event, though you could probably still do something like the soldier on patrol only have him nearby enough to see and hear the explosion.

I&#039;m wary of using dialogue in the game as I&#039;ve yet to see a solution for first person speech that is really satisfactory. Hearing a character speak for you is weird, especially if you do not choose the lines, but the Valve school of strong silent protagonist doesn&#039;t always work either. There is the KotOR/Bloodlines solution of silently choosing written lines... but perhaps choice of words plus voice-over could work.

The recurring choices are interesting. I don&#039;t know if pivotal decisions should be made in each segment as part of the lack of agency is that it illustrates how people are caught up in events largely beyond their control and they&#039;re just doing what they can, or must. I wouldn&#039;t for example want to feature a scene with a politician or military commander making decisions from afar. It&#039;s about the people on the ground. Perhaps the choice for the paramedic could be which person to save, if they can only take one...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shall have to watch that film, Rendition.</p>
<p>I like reincorporation as a storytelling device. It can be really powerful in showing connections that you weren&#8217;t aware of or changing your perception of a thing.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right that it would be good to focus every vignette on the one event, though you could probably still do something like the soldier on patrol only have him nearby enough to see and hear the explosion.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wary of using dialogue in the game as I&#8217;ve yet to see a solution for first person speech that is really satisfactory. Hearing a character speak for you is weird, especially if you do not choose the lines, but the Valve school of strong silent protagonist doesn&#8217;t always work either. There is the KotOR/Bloodlines solution of silently choosing written lines&#8230; but perhaps choice of words plus voice-over could work.</p>
<p>The recurring choices are interesting. I don&#8217;t know if pivotal decisions should be made in each segment as part of the lack of agency is that it illustrates how people are caught up in events largely beyond their control and they&#8217;re just doing what they can, or must. I wouldn&#8217;t for example want to feature a scene with a politician or military commander making decisions from afar. It&#8217;s about the people on the ground. Perhaps the choice for the paramedic could be which person to save, if they can only take one&#8230;</p>
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